Axon 3.0 alpha 1 released
Andy,
Any relation to Bruce? I raced against he and Denny when working for Penske Racing.
> Axon 2.1 is still openly available and fully supported as we are very mindful we have an extremely important user base who want to be able to develop their own profiles for different applications or materials.
> To this extent we have maintained the integrity of firmware version 5.4 which will allow the user to run both Axon 2.1 and Axon 3 output files and also fix some minor reported bugs (please see firmware release note for full details).
This is good news. Thank you. Question is, will 2.X remain in continued development as an option for professionals or slowly be sidelined, as the new shiny version becomes the only one management cares about working on? IOW, will we be relegated to sticking at a certain firmware level and running outdated software to do what we need to do or be forced into the new closed environment to get our investment back?
Get our investment back?
Why do I say "get our investment back"? When I invested in BfB hardware, it had a future. Now, it looks like that future may be walled off, real soon now. I've bought in, put my money down and I then learn that, effectively, "well, things have changed—we're going in a different direction—you'll have to wait and see what we come up with and if it works for you and, by the way, eventually there won't be any alternatives". Harsh, perhaps, but that what it feels like from this side of the printer. Feedback, good and not so good, but both truthful, is good if you're going to learn what your customers are going through.
> We are in the middle of evaluating a spec for an advanced user version where we will have some form of setting options. This we hope will be available in the coming months.
This would allay a lot of the above questions. Thank you for considering. If your team comes out with something totally blinding, I'll be the first to spread the word.
> With Axon 3 we have tried to make software that will go part way to demystifying the print process, start to open up the technology to the masses, improve print repeatability and part quality.
I get the "Democratizing" thing. A noble and lofty sounding goal. Please don't make it the only thing and, hence, the only approach. Making complex things easy to use by the technologically challenged is mostly a good thing and, to a certain extent, eventually inevitable. All manner of things these days were once impossible, then possible, then just push a button. Most often, "just push a button" is a compromise that makes greatness unreachable.
Why? Because there are way more innovators out here who have more experience and more vectors of viewpoint and more talent than you could ever hire. They will come up with a lot of drek but they will also produce approaches and solutions that a single entity closed-environment mindset will never think of. Locking that potential out of your own product is a serious error.
> To achieve this of course it does mean we have had to develop closed optimised generic print profiles which will cater for a wide range of geometries.
This type of phrasing always makes be run for the exit. I would request some information on why "had to". It is implied that there was no choice and you were forced into it by someone else. No, it was a consious choice. In my experience, taking an exclusivity approach and forcing people into it is rarely a good marketing move.
Now, I am fully aware that 3DS has a lot of printers of varying levels. Maybe too many. This says that allowing a 3DT to become too good will hurt sales of the next level of technology up the product line. Controlling that capability, so that tinkerers can only go so far, would be a logial choice from the corporate point of view.
Then there's trying to figure out which ideal we are to get behind. In one sentence, it's: "open up the technology to the masses" and in the next it's: "develop closed optimized print profiles". What's the point of encrypting build files? This sort of approach makes me uncomfortable and wondering who it is that I now find myself dealing with. That this came along after-the-fact, makes it even moreso.
I'm betting that IP will be cited. Make everything possible such that someone else will have a more difficult time improving it. Well, you have a choice. Afraid that someone will make something better? If they do, then make something better than that and keep your customer first; not the other way around. That is the way to innovation and, with that, a solid market share. Be Better. I invested extra money to get better hardware and I like it. You are better at that and I have advised others on that fact; multiple times. I didn't spend extra money to get funneled down a proprietary planned obsolescence path. Please take this to heart as much as you do opening up this technology to all.
Advantages in war are the most fleeting
Of course there are patents, and circumvention of same. Sometimes, that is why things are encrypted. Either there's something in there that is really cool and we don't want anyone to find out about it or there's nothing in there that is remotely remarkable and we'd just as soon you thought there was. Whichever, it leaves a bad taste.
When it comes down to how this impacts the user, if they are under the gun at 03:00 and REALLY need to find a workaround and have to deal with your encrypted files, they're royally screwed. Not cool. If they could have found a simple error in the code and fixed it, then continued on with their job, they'd feel a whole lot better about the company they got behind than if they are relegated to waiting for Technical Support to finally answer and then try to figure out what is wrong. Because the software has been Black Boxed, the user has missed the deadline.
> We hope that all will download and try Axon 3 even if it’s to run only part of their requirements as we are really excited about the results that come from it… this is from the heart, from someone who is passionate about opening this technology to all.
I will try A3, after the required firmware has been proven stable. That, and after this critical project has been completed. As much as I like the latest and greatest, I'll discipline myself to leaving that sparkle toy alone. I need a reliable machine right now. A Borked firmware update resulting in a hosed printer is not on the table.
Please do know that I appreciate your coming to the forum to shed at least some light on what is going on and that I am not attacking you; just trying to effect a course correction from someone with boots on the ground. I am also fully aware that one person's viewpoint usually has near zero influence on a corporate environment and the directions chosen. Just sayin', for whatever it may be worth, for those of us out here who do have a vested interest.
Hi Andrea
I have some answers from the tech dept. Please see below.
The firmware deals with the new nose wipe sequence so it should work the same with other slicing software.
No new Gcode command.
Sometimes during printing the acceleration would not be activated resulting in louder change in direction. There should be little or no effect on print quality.
I hope this helps
Andy Mac
Jonathan,
I hope Andy has clarified your questions regarding access to parameters and new firmware continuing to operate with .bfb Gcode files.
At present there are no plans to adapt the V4 firmware to run Axon 3 .bfbe build files (V4 firmware is used on RapMan 3.0, RapMan 3.1, BFB 3000 (plus)). We are unable to open source the V4 firmware as much of its IP is still relevant in the V5 firmware.
Andrew
Axon 3 on my German Windows XP will generate everything x10. The STL is read and shown correctly, but the tool paths are all exactly what they should be times ten. I scaled the model by 0.1 and sliced and the result would be printable, only the raft is now scaled and no longer works. This could be related to the fact that in Germany, the meaning of the comma and dot are reversed for decimal numbers.
Apart from that, a binary file is a miserable idea. My build pplatform uses Kapton on Aluminium and needs different temperatures for the raft. I can no longer patch the file, making Axon 3 useless for me (plus a lot other settings are missing).
I had great results with KISSlicer though. A worthy investment and a great developer. Plus it works on my Mac. The print results and raft stickyness are much better as well. And last but not least, I can load multiple objects and print individual objects multiple times on a single run.
The Firmware restart function is useless because the X and Y positions are not recalibrated. If power really fails while the head is moving, the X and Y positions of the steppers will always be lost.
After my first initial likes for the Touch, I get more and more annoyed. The bed warping is unacceptable. The power supply is dimensioned to small and eventually fails. The multimaterial support in Axon 2 was simply not there, but Axon 3 has other issues. The (original BFB) PLA keeps snapping inside the bowden cable thanks to sharp curves (or the quality of the PLA?).
There are so many really great ideas in this machine, but in the end, I need three and more retries to print anything more complex than a 1x1 cube.
I Just downloaded it yesterday but when I installed it there is no material presets.
its just blank. can you help me?
hoping for immidiate reply. thankyou
at screen the loaded Object has the correct size
but the build result has complete wrong size
when comes the update ?
and i missing a button for expert Setup control
its not possible to print every part with the standard Setup, Axon3 seems to go the wrong way
here is my wishlist
separate Temp Control for raft and first layer
skin and surface layer count
and a special option for closer print the lines (for reduce the gap size between lines) to improve small object to a max solid part
how did you installed the Axon3? do you have the material settings already or did you do something to make it show?
normal installed
and by printer setup i could select ABS, PLA etc.
no standard material profile :( help
While we are looking into it, here is the work around for the problem where material profiles are not showing:
Windows 7 / Vista
Close Axon. Click the start (Windows) button then copy and paste this in to the search box and press enter:
%LocalAppData%\Axon 3
A window should open which contains two folders:
- Build Style Profiles v1
- Material Profiles v1
Delete both of these folders, the open Axon again.
Windows XP
Click Start -> Run, then copy and paste this into the box and press enter:
%UserProfile%\Local Settings\Application Data\Axon 3
A window should open which contains two folders:
- Build Style Profiles v1
- Material Profiles v1
Delete both of these folders, the open Axon again.
thank you so much.. but now im having crashes on windows XP. but i'll try the new ver. by the way can i still make hollow models?
I´m still having problems with the material editor I can´t see it, and I cannot print, I did the indications that you write before, but it doesn´t work, PLEASE HELP.
Thanks
I´m trying with axon 3 ALPHA 2 and 1
since my Firmware Update for Axon3 test
i would print today an old Axon2 bfb file
but what i see in the Printer Display
he is checking the file and show then for any old bfb file a checkSum Error
slowly there are too much problems with BFB Printer, they have a good spare part support, but what does that help, if the rest of it makes problems
started from a bend printer bed (past 1year i had to pay self for the spare)
breaking PLA every day (shit PLA material from BFB)
then a hope for some improvement in next Axon but this Axon3 is totaly for the ass
and now this firmware Problem for old bfb files
i am realy angry abuot this expensive printer, for that price i could get 2 Ultimaker or 3 Rosstock Printer(search at Kickstarter)
It feels like there are only the practicants from 3DSystem they work at weekend for Firmware and Axon developing.
The printer wont work with old BFB Files past the 5-4-0 Firmware....it shows only checksum erros (it is a BETA Version......ok....but does should not happen)
.....
....
solved
the fimrware from yestereday 5-4-1 works
i wondering why this problem was not noticed here before
ignaciogarciadesign, there is currently no material editor in Axon 3. When you open the Printer Configuration dialogue are you able to see and select from a list of materials? If not please can you raise a ticket so we can investigate further.
gnapoles, currently it is not possible to change material settings in Axon 3 so there are no choices of part density. It has always been the intention to allow adjustment of part density however this is not yet implemented hence the alpha status of the current Axon 3 releases.
Regarding the problems you are having in Windows XP, please can you raise a ticket and attach your .stl file(s) if relevant.
Axon 3 alpha 1 and 2 have been released with a build timeout mechanism still active. This is currently causing the Axon 3 to exit when the build button is clicked. The obvious temporary work around is to set back your system time to a few days ago, however we will be releasing a fix today.
We apologise for the trouble. Please remember this is alpha release software and not a finished product.
I have a 3D Touch and I cannot see how limiting and reducing user controls would help anyone as they advance their skills.
I have tried the latest version of Axon 3 (Alpha 3) and was hugely disappointed with the output and the fact that I had no way to correct the print problems. Some vital settings are no longer present. So I've reverted to Axon 2.1 for now. I see this "proprietory" software has a great potential for discouraging new 3D Touch customers.
Here's a story that happened to me recently: I was looking for a CNC paper cutting machine in order to custom cut stick-on labels (among other potential uses). One of the first machines I found in an online search was the "Cricut". At first glance, this seemed like it could be a good solution, but more in-depth study revealed that the Cricut requires rather expensive proprietory cartridges that contain pre-designed cutting patterns. You cannot create and cut your own designs! Looking at the Cricut's competition, I found that most, if not all of these other machines allow you to design your own cuts. Which machine would you buy? This is an example of how proprietory devices can effect sales. I would NEVER consider buying a Cricut after seeing these other more versatile machines.
With 3D printing, in my experience, it is obvious, at least at this stage of the game, that users MUST be able to change certain settings in order to make good prints. I can imagine that making the 3D Touch more proprietory would be greatly detrimental to sales. IMO, the latest Axon version (V3 - Alpha 3) is a major disaster. I join with others posting on this forum in calling for more controls, not less.
I hope you are listening, BFB!
Andy,
Earlier you said "Axon 2.1 is still openly available and fully supported as we are very mindful we have an extremely important user base who want to be able to develop their own profiles for different applications or materials.". If Axon 2.1 is fully supported, can you tell us when the "checksum error" talked about in this forum will be corrected? As far as I can tell anyone who wants to print multi-material ends up going back to Axon 2.0.1 because the Axon 2.1 multi-material print features don't work.
Thank you very much,
Chuck
Hey,
im new to this forum but have been using the 3DT for about a year now.
I upgraded the firmware to 5.4.1 to try axon3 alpha3 for using multimaterial as advertised on the bfb homepage.
(Loading multiple stl files into axon 2 did not work at all even though the option is there. The parts just don't appear when trying to load.)
Since the firmware update the printer always shows a checksum error. Sometimes it works after retrying the same bfb or bfbe file several times.
i already had that problem occasionally before the update but since I could check the bfb file manually and deactivate the checksum it did not bother me too much.
My biggest problem is that axon3 does not create a file that prints in two materials. Even though I definitely chose the right settings in axon3 the printer prints both parts in the same material. Furthermore it really doesn't make me happy that I actually have to print and waste material to find out the part is not what I want because I can't check the bfbe before printing.
Even though I read the other posts and explanations I did not understand the reason for crypting the machine code. Are there new prompts the printer wouldn't understand in an open file? Or is it for compressing the file size? At this point I see no point trying the new axon releases as I will not run a file on the printer again I haven't checked manually. If you want your customers to help you developing new softwares by testing alpha releases you can't hide from them what the software does. I'd be fine with encrypted files if they work perfect. But in alpha releases this obviously cannot be expected. I'd be glad to test and help but not if I unnecessarily waste material and risk to damage the printer. I would still like to solve my problem about not being able to multimaterial print.
I share most the other opinions about options in new releases and would be sad if an actually quiet solid printer is more and more restricted by software.
Like others I've always wanted more access to controls, not less. No advanced user controls was the opposite of what I was hoping for.
Build settings are missing all fill settings. Changing the structural integrity is now gone, I have files that I print the same part changing nothing but the fill, this gives me multiple types of parts who's use are not the same.
No profile editor. So any new materials can't be used like Taulman Nylon or Laywoo-D3 Filament etc. Let alone that fact this means I couldn't support my own economy buy buying Australian made filament.
.bfbe gcode files are not editable. 90% of the time I need to edit the gcode manually, even if only to turn the fan on or off (M106,M107). Having used the 3Dtouch though winter & summer it is impossible for me to get reliable/quality prints without editing the gcode, the profile settings that work in winter don't work in summer where I live. Then there's times when I need to add in the return to bin for nose wipe after raft.
(<raftLayerEnd> </raftLayerEnd>)
#EndMaterial
M106
M561 P9600 S900
M104 S140
M542
M543
#StartPartMaterial
M107
M542
M104 S200
M551 P57600 S600
M543
(<nestedRing>)
Otherwise it prints the part straight after the raft, meaning it starts the part without a clean nozzle & welds the part to the raft as it has not had enough time to cool down. These are just 2 of many examples of how a small edit to the gcode make a quality/reliable print & printer.
So unless these problems are solved in the final release it takes the printer from multi materials printer to a 2 BFB materials only.
All big problems, which means I will most likely sell the printer as I have others that are currently more versatile & efficient.
I'll wait for the final release of Axon 3 though as I still think the 3DTouch could eventually be the better printer.
I am just printing my first part with Axon3. First thing I noticed was, there is print speed setting anymore. But then, OMG, what a mess. First it lays down no less than 4 layers of raft material. When the part started, it layed down several layers of the infill before doing the skin loops. When it came to the skin loops, the nozzle bumped over the middle part which was already .75mm higher. The part completely screwed up and I had to terminate. This was the same part I had just printed with Axon2 and it was fine. Question to BFB guys: Do you do any in house testing at all before you release products? I am beginning to wonder about this.
I am just printing my first part with Axon3. First thing I noticed was, there is print speed setting anymore. But then, OMG, what a mess. First it lays down no less than 4 layers of raft material. When the part started, it layed down several layers of the infill before doing the skin loops. When it came to the skin loops, the nozzle bumped over the middle part which was already .75mm higher. The part completely screwed up and I had to terminate. This was the same part I had just printed with Axon2 and it was fine. Question to BFB guys: Do you do any in house testing at all before you release products? I am beginning to wonder about this.
Hi,
i want to join prior posters. As a mechanical engineer i'm one of the first at our institute who took the brave step to buy one of "these new 3D printers". There is lots of interest to this technology around me. But i can't recommend a BFB printer to the others at the moment. Reasons are the decissions BFB took in the recent past. Like allready mentioned above, users want to have expert options. And even if the print outs are perfect (what is definetly not possible at the moment), i want to have the possibilitys to even print better.
BFB you have to accept, at the moment costumers do better buying a Ulitmaker, Rostock, ... Please re-think your decissions, and make me like my printer. So i can recommend it to others.
Daniel
Are there any new infos, when we can reckon with a official axon 3 release? Thanks in advance!
Daniel
Hello Daniel303
i was one of them who has written criticism about the Axon3Alpha1.....
but in meantime i am sure its real the Beta only with that small functionality, the final will have all missing setup options again
under the line i feel happy with the BFB Touch again
of cousre it is necessary to improve the BFB Touch a bit, like to install the Material reel at top of the mashine without the feeding PTFE Tubes.....
and some other small thinkgs, but then its will work like a trusty work horse over many hours
the installation for the Material reels at top, have also the effect to reducve abrasion at the feeding spindel, because the material comes much easier to the Printheads, i can print 10-20hours without any dust at this part
Hi,
i hope that it will be so, that you have as many options as possible. Prior steps like encrypting the gcode create another impression... But lets see.
I have the spool on top too :)
Have a nice day,
Daniel
Hi,
I just updated to Axon 3 and the new firmware. My 3DT can read and print Axon 2 bfb file but when I did a multi-material one I've got checksum error for the bfbe file.
Any idea?
As well, I've a 3 head machine but it seem that it is only possible to do a multimaterial of 2 when if you don't use suport material you should be able to use 3 ....
I've try to build it in axon 2 but I got a z offset when this does not exist when I load single stl file, anyidea for this ? on axon 3 it put the multi material at the right z but the file has a chacksum problem.
I'm attaching the bfbe in case it help resolve the issue.
I did bought this printer to use at work (profetionally) as it look reliable for a correct price, now, I'm starting to wonder ...
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| combined_new.bfbe | 2.31 MB |
William,
I am new to BFB but have built many 3d printers myself. I have not been successful using Axon3 for multicolor printing. I get the same checksum error, but I think you have to point to the other BFB file, but when I did that it only printed in one color. Maybe we need to turn the checksum off in firmware? I may have to try that.
In the meantime, I use kisslicer most of the time and have gone back to Axon2 for multi-color prints. Perhaps someone more experienced can help us both here, but I think Axon3 is just too beta to be used.
As for 3d printing, every 3d printer I've used has taken days or weeks of setup and configuring to work. For me, the BFB has worked the quickest out-of-the-box....but still took me a few weeks to get it working reliably.
I know this is not much help.....
W
Hi Andrea
Can you bear with me until the morning as I do want to get clarification from those more knowledgable than me.
Andy Mac